Christians and Culture part1
January 13th 2007 11:56
I've been doing some interesting reading recently. One of the books that I am (still) making my way through is TS Eliot's Christianity and Culture. Interesting book. One of the most interesting things he said in there, that has really stuck with me is "We do not live in a christian culture (he was speaking about Britain during his lifetime), we live in a culture where christians are tolerated." A couple of days ago, this really got me thinking.
I had a thought a few days ago. That nerds are the hippies of this generation. Obscure, but let me explain. Nerds, like hippies, have a large amount of influence on society while remaining on the fringes of it. Hippies smoked drugs and opposed the mainstream, alot of the time having an effect on the conscience of their society. Nerds, well, I won't speak about their drugs, but their own attacks on mainstream society (where hippies protested with placards and slogans, nerds protest with bulletin board services and emails) have borne fruit I think no-one expected. They have changed the music industry, and have grown the information super-highway to the point where it is almost impossible to not find what you are looking for (unless you are looking for a section of a chinese folklore to post on your other blog) and very difficult to hide any information. Especially if you never want anyone to find it..........
So I got thinking, one step ahead of here, and using what Mr Eliot had said about not living in a christian society. What if christians were as influential as nerds? What if society began to change due to this influence? By influential, I don't mean as annoying (like Spammers, although that's one way of looking at Jehovah's Witnesses), I mean simply being able to shape it through actively passive means. To define what is cool. Consider this......
In the eighties and early nineties, only nerds played video games. They were rare, most people wanted nothing to do with them. These days, everyone not only owns a computer, but just about every kid plays some kind of computer game. It's now cool to do so. Rap, hip-hop and techno weren't considered that good. Now it is difficult to find someone that doesn't enjoy it. Cool may be the killer of intellect in many cases, but it is also one of the most foundational stones of defining what is accepted by society.
I started thinking about those points. Christians at this point in time, are not the most influential of social groups. I know alot of people that will be pretty happy about that. To a degree, I am one of them. Partly because I have seen too many influential christians do stupid things. Usually, these are the weird, hardcore, full on right wing christians. The ones that are fundaMENTAList. But with that being said, I have known far too many amazing, dedicated loving christians that SHOULD be more influential. They are the kind of people that you DO want to know, and the ones that often want to know you.
So part of me is asking, what if christians carried more influence in society?
JZ
I had a thought a few days ago. That nerds are the hippies of this generation. Obscure, but let me explain. Nerds, like hippies, have a large amount of influence on society while remaining on the fringes of it. Hippies smoked drugs and opposed the mainstream, alot of the time having an effect on the conscience of their society. Nerds, well, I won't speak about their drugs, but their own attacks on mainstream society (where hippies protested with placards and slogans, nerds protest with bulletin board services and emails) have borne fruit I think no-one expected. They have changed the music industry, and have grown the information super-highway to the point where it is almost impossible to not find what you are looking for (unless you are looking for a section of a chinese folklore to post on your other blog) and very difficult to hide any information. Especially if you never want anyone to find it..........
So I got thinking, one step ahead of here, and using what Mr Eliot had said about not living in a christian society. What if christians were as influential as nerds? What if society began to change due to this influence? By influential, I don't mean as annoying (like Spammers, although that's one way of looking at Jehovah's Witnesses), I mean simply being able to shape it through actively passive means. To define what is cool. Consider this......
In the eighties and early nineties, only nerds played video games. They were rare, most people wanted nothing to do with them. These days, everyone not only owns a computer, but just about every kid plays some kind of computer game. It's now cool to do so. Rap, hip-hop and techno weren't considered that good. Now it is difficult to find someone that doesn't enjoy it. Cool may be the killer of intellect in many cases, but it is also one of the most foundational stones of defining what is accepted by society.
I started thinking about those points. Christians at this point in time, are not the most influential of social groups. I know alot of people that will be pretty happy about that. To a degree, I am one of them. Partly because I have seen too many influential christians do stupid things. Usually, these are the weird, hardcore, full on right wing christians. The ones that are fundaMENTAList. But with that being said, I have known far too many amazing, dedicated loving christians that SHOULD be more influential. They are the kind of people that you DO want to know, and the ones that often want to know you.
So part of me is asking, what if christians carried more influence in society?
JZ
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Comment by David my David
Since we already know each other, let's launch straight into the Chesterton here ...
Read Reverend Alban Butler's 'Lives of the Saints' ... Go and have a squiz and really good read of the 'Patron Saints Index' site ..
What you'll find in Butler's is this ... Saints like St John (Don) Bosco ... were onto what you are talking about, so this is the approach they took ... They mingled wordliness with Christianity as a hook ... (Okay, so I take it a bit further and mix profanity with Christianity ... but hey ... you want to break a rock? Use a sledgehammer ... not a magistrate's gavel ...
St John Bosco? He used to sing songs to young kids, play with them ... befriend them ... and once he had befriended them? He would then mention Christ ... and the love of God ... and they would listen to him ... Why? He loved them first ... as they were ... for no other reason than that they were souls created by God ...
The life of St John Bosco ? ... Priceless reading ... It's a treasure trove of Christianity in practical practice ...
Words? Yep. Faith comes by hearing (St. Paul) ... But actions? Charity and love and acceptance of others in action ???
Actions speak louder than words ...
Me? I've gone all pagan and heathen ... but I still know more about the theory of Christianity than most people on this planet ...
But to me ... I can convert a street kid to Christianity by sitting with him on the ground and stroking his pet rat and asking him about how come he's on the streets more than I can by shoving my ex-religion down his throat ...
The Blessed Virgin Mary? ... Read St Luke ... When she visited her cousin St Elizabeth ... 'the infant leapt in her womb for joy' ... (the infant? It was St. John the Baptist of whom Christ said, 'No greater man was born of woman' ... And why did the infant Baptist leap in St Elizabeth's womb? His mother's womb ... ? Because Mary greeted Elizabeth ... How could this happen? How could someone be converted just by a simple 'Hello'? ... Easy ... Mary was full of grace ... full of the grace of God ... and the only thing responsible for converting a soul? The grace of God ... not human endeavour ...
Oh yeah .. I spent too much time in contemplation of the mysteries of God ... Sacred Scripture ...
Why am I turning pagan and heathen ? ... Same reason Christ died on the Cross ... A bit sick of telling people anything I guess ...They never listen ... they're too busy telling Christ about his own religion ...
So he got on the Cross to show them ... and guess what?
They forgot they had eyesight ...
Anyway ... I've raved and ranted enough now ... but there are certain times of the day and night that I get a bit religous ... and dredge up all the wealth of twenty years contemplation ... ...pour it out on the page ...
and then think of going pagan ...
Going now ...
I'll read this in the morning ... see what I think of it ...
Just writing unedited .. pouring my thoughts out on the page ... A pagan woman taught me how to do this ... No Christian woman ever taught me anything ... apart from how to suffer ...
grief from her ...
David ...
Comment by Adrian
Philosophy Blog
http://beyondbelief2006.org/Watch/
It's on my bedside table to watch -- an atheist friend tells me that, believe it or not, it is rivetting, and that the debate is "robust and clearly expressed... Debate between experts yet the speakers were good, because they had to speak in obvious and plain terms."
In the course of the e-mail to me, he remarks: "Do we need to persuade others to atheism? Spooky suggestion about engaging PR. Surely if the wish is to advance rationality one wants to advance immunity from PR."
So I guess your post prompts me to ask the same question: Should Christianity be advanced by engaging the battle of trends? Should it be looking for PR? Or does engaging in the battle simply dumb down society and promote irrationality?
Comment by JoshZ
A Simple Christian
I read your comment last night but I wanted to let it simmer for awhile.
You make some excellent points, especially coming from the life of that saint. And I agree with it. St Francis of Assisi once said "at all times, preach the Gospel, if needs be, use words." What he was saying is along the same lines as what the saint you mentioned did. He went to the people and lived christianity with them, not forcing it down there throat, but loving them. It is what I aspire to, but I know that I am not that great at it.
Interesting points you made at the end. Accurate as well, if I read them right.
Jacques Ellul in his book The Subversion of Christianity (which I am reading and is brilliant) and Bonhoeffer in The Cost of Discipleship said similar things. Might be worth having a read. What they both said was that at times christians have taken meaning from Christ's words that He didn't mean. This has gotten to me this year and I have been trying to truly follow Him as best I can.
I am sorry that there have been christians that have hurt you.
David, your comments are appreciated. YOu are closer to the truth than I think you think.
JZ
Comment by JoshZ
A Simple Christian
your comment leads perfectly into my next post on this.
Watch that space. Up there. Where the new posts are found.
JZ
Comment by David my David
I know Christianity inside-out and upside-down ...
but so does Satan ... (What did he use to tempt Christ in the desert and on the pinnacle of the mountain? ....
Sacred Scripture ...
If I have all knowledge and have not charity .. I have become a tinkling brass cymbol ...
It's really all about charity and love ... (not knowledge ..
When I get judged by Christ ? ... I'll say to Him ... (You know all those things I did for others that no-one else knows about? ...
He'll just nod and go Yeah ...
Sure I write ... big stuffing deal ... my major achievements in life? not my writing man ... it's the things I do (the little things ) ... that I won't tell anyone about ... because ...
I don't want to lose my reward for them ...
Yeah, people think I'm a big bad ugly word monster ... well let them think that ... They're not judging me on the real JUDGEMENT DAY ...
We'll see who is right and who is wrong on that day ...
David ...
Comment by JoshZ
A Simple Christian
And dude, I don't think you're a big bad ugly word monster.
JZ