What Maketh The Man?
February 1st 2007 11:53
I would like to thank Ash for what she wrote about men becoming far too feminine both for her taste, and for the that of several other notable women on this network.
Originally it was said that clothes maketh the man, but judging from some of the comments that I read on the aforementioned post, this appears to be in some error, or at least, some very bad territory. I have to be honest, I am not a fashion icon. I do not put product in my hair or wear any other item of cosmetics (the only cosmetic stuff I really do to myself is shave occasionally and trim my beard, though admittedly, this is only for comfort). I don't wear clothes that are the cutting edge of fashion. Generally speaking, jeans, thongs and t-shirt pretty well cover what I wear and the body I wear it over. So I guess I can call no judgement on what kind of fashions men ought to wear (that being said I am a dedicated hater of both the emo and metro look).
But what values should a man now have? CS Lewis said brilliant things about the nature of chivalry, that in the pinnacles of manhood that were the Arthurian knights, a man should seek to have the nature of the lion and the lamb. Please note that I am not referencing christianity in at this point, I am simply using the words that he did. The goal of this was to produce a man that was socially refined, to the point where he was at home in the company of women and poetry and to forge the man of war, that heeded the trumpets and drew his blade to defend the honour of said women. The interesting thing about this is that the honour systems of many other countries are so very similar. The closest example I can think of off hand are the samurai. The ideal samurai was not simply a warrior but was also an artist and philosopher. They were men for whom conduct off the battlefield was to match their gallantry on the battlefield.
This being said though, I am not saying that men should be out learning how to cut each other up with swords or other sharp objects. I do not think that this defines a man. But I do believe that a man should develop himself in ways that strengthen his convictions, and builds discipline into his life. If it takes training in martial arts, then hey, go for it. But I truly believe a man should also have a love of the poetic things in life. Not just poems, but things that are poetic. I don't mean that we cry at the drop of a hat (this being said I am well aware that twice on my aliterati blog I have confessed to have being made to cry by books) but we have to care as much as we can.
JZ
Originally it was said that clothes maketh the man, but judging from some of the comments that I read on the aforementioned post, this appears to be in some error, or at least, some very bad territory. I have to be honest, I am not a fashion icon. I do not put product in my hair or wear any other item of cosmetics (the only cosmetic stuff I really do to myself is shave occasionally and trim my beard, though admittedly, this is only for comfort). I don't wear clothes that are the cutting edge of fashion. Generally speaking, jeans, thongs and t-shirt pretty well cover what I wear and the body I wear it over. So I guess I can call no judgement on what kind of fashions men ought to wear (that being said I am a dedicated hater of both the emo and metro look).
But what values should a man now have? CS Lewis said brilliant things about the nature of chivalry, that in the pinnacles of manhood that were the Arthurian knights, a man should seek to have the nature of the lion and the lamb. Please note that I am not referencing christianity in at this point, I am simply using the words that he did. The goal of this was to produce a man that was socially refined, to the point where he was at home in the company of women and poetry and to forge the man of war, that heeded the trumpets and drew his blade to defend the honour of said women. The interesting thing about this is that the honour systems of many other countries are so very similar. The closest example I can think of off hand are the samurai. The ideal samurai was not simply a warrior but was also an artist and philosopher. They were men for whom conduct off the battlefield was to match their gallantry on the battlefield.
This being said though, I am not saying that men should be out learning how to cut each other up with swords or other sharp objects. I do not think that this defines a man. But I do believe that a man should develop himself in ways that strengthen his convictions, and builds discipline into his life. If it takes training in martial arts, then hey, go for it. But I truly believe a man should also have a love of the poetic things in life. Not just poems, but things that are poetic. I don't mean that we cry at the drop of a hat (this being said I am well aware that twice on my aliterati blog I have confessed to have being made to cry by books) but we have to care as much as we can.
JZ
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Comment by Tel
Even 'Jesus wept'... Love, mercy, compassion, grief, and perhaps even anger are chiseled down to these two words.
Best regards.
InspiredPen
Comment by hewhocutsdown
Comment by Ash
Australian Traveller
Flashes of memories
Good post, you say things so much better!
Just to clarify I wasn`t really meaning clothes as such - more the actions of men - the grunting cavemen of days gone by - not really in to what people look like (of course we are all physcially attracted to outer appearance, even in the smallest measure). It is the
as you so perfectly put it! little bit of thinking outside the square. i like a thinking and feeling man.
Wise words
ash
Comment by Cibbuano
20/20 Filmsight
Science News
Hunt Famous
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Fat Cult
Techbreak
Should a man know how to cook? Why not, I'd say. But should a man avoid learning to cook just because he thinks it's unmasculine?
Comment by Joe Blogg
Joe Blogg's Blog
manchesterunited
collingwoodfootballclub
PS: You don't have to be a metrosexual to know how to cook & take pride in your appearance.
PPS: Ditch the jeans & thongs routine Josh.
I hate to break the news to you buddy but JC wooda shaved of his beard if he was around these days.
And while yer at it, if you've got back hair get rid of that also.
It's up to you if you stop there.
You can 'add' an inch though.
Basically make the woman, women (for all our Mormon friends) want you not tolerate you.
Comment by Nina
TV Babble
Comment by Anonymous
Comment by JoshZ
A Simple Christian
Tel,
thanks for dropping on by.
I think that alot of Jesus' humanity is contained within these two words. That He was man enough that He would feel all the pain that we do.
JZ
Comment by JoshZ
A Simple Christian
I simply dare all that may become a man, he who dares more is none.
JZ
Comment by JoshZ
A Simple Christian
Yeah, though what you said about fashion was still pretty spot on. Clothes may not make the man, but they can tell us alot about him.
And I think that the kind of man that is "cool" in these times is different to how they used to be. Nerds and Emos are certainly gaining in popularity (I have support for the first group, they tend to be more fun) and this trend extends not only to fashion but to attitude as well.
JZ
Comment by JoshZ
A Simple Christian
Good points (and speaking about good points, am I now too popular for a post of the day?).
The point about equality could be a post in itself, but I will try to keep it short and sweet. I have a friend that told me once that it is unfair for me to think badly of a young man that had used violence against a woman, as the woman used to hit him as well. Personally, I think that is not enough of an excuse. Unless a woman is trying to kill me I will not raise a hand in anger against her.
The obvious one aside, I think that men should be able to cook, clean and be capable of other domestic tasks. There are definetely things that women are better at than men, but there are things that men are better at than women. There are also attitudes and perspectives that both hold which the other may not. Personally, I like the way that it works out. The two natures are contradictory at times, but in a way that compliments each other.
JZ
p.s. on cooking I think it is exceptionally masculine. It is creative yet logical and methodical.
Comment by JoshZ
A Simple Christian
admittedly, my dress sense is more comfort based than anything. I was originally against thongs until I started wearing them and found them to be extremely comfortable.
Believe it or not, I am not actually that hairy on chest or back. I am quite hairless in those areas.
And as for being wanted by a woman? My girlfriend is VERY happy with what I look like......
JZ
Comment by JoshZ
A Simple Christian
Good words, and very true.
I think that a man should have a conviction though to treat women well. They have a hard job. They put up with us.
JZ
Comment by JoshZ
A Simple Christian
Well, that is certainly the anatomical difference.
Doesn't say alot else though.
JZ
Comment by Joe Blogg
Joe Blogg's Blog
manchesterunited
collingwoodfootballclub
I wasn't suggesting you were actually that hairy cobber.
I was suggesting 'she' will outgrow your slob look at some point point though.
Comment by JoshZ
A Simple Christian
I think I should clarify a couple of things......
I wash my hair everyday and maintain all the important hygiene stuff. And I tend to wear nice jeans and okay t-shirts.
You have a great point regarding complacency though. Alot of people lose what they have because they do not keep it healthy.
JZ
Comment by Abe
God's Stormtrooper
None of these great men wrote poems or worried about being "socially refined" (they may have pondered thong sandals, however). They simply kicked ass in the name of the Lord and set the precedents for all future acts of manliness -- ever. Re-read your Bible JZ. It's the best (and only) book I've ever read, and it'll tell you all you need to know.
Comment by JoshZ
A Simple Christian
The first point I would like to make is that David DID write poems. He was well known for it. The second is that Job is a book of Jewish poetry. So my theory is that God quite likes men to engage in poetry. Even the prophecies delivered by Elijah, Isaiah, Malachi etc have a ring of poetic grandeur to them.
And I think you missed alot of the point. Abraham understood hospitality and invited unknown strangers into his tent. This is a part of social refinement, where a man's actions are not simply those based on courage, but also his basic decency defines him (that being said, a quick read of Abraham's life is certainly an interesting read).
The third point I would like to make is the reason I very rarely quote the Bible on here. Mostly because most people haven't read it, or if they have read it, haven't understood every part of it (I have read it I don't know how many times and I STILL don't understand all of it) and so I use things that I am pretty sure that they will understand.
The fourth point is that Karl Barth, who was considered one of the greatest christian philosophers and theologists of the last century, stated that every responsible christian should read at least two things every day. The Bible and the newspaper. I read books both by christians and non-christians because there is something to learn from them.
I hope that helps.
JZ
Comment by Abe
God's Stormtrooper
Thanks so much for your attempt to clarify your "New Age" approach to Christianity. However, I must say that I am unpersuaded by your arguments. I have been born again on at least 7 different occasions, and it is this close relationship with Jesus which leads me to the belief that my opinions are ultimately correct on this (and all) theological matters. I may not know as many "facts" as you do about extra-Biblical sources, and I may not have read as many books (although I have attended the burning of many), but it is my close relationship with Jesus that has led me to true and accurate interpretations of scripture. As a good Christian gesture, I am referring you to my blog so that you may gain insight into true faith. I hope that it inspires you to a closer relationship with the Lord God!
Comment by Adrian
Philosophy Blog
Don't know if anyone has said this, but why should there be any gender stereotypes at all? Why should there be separate masculine and feminine ideals? Why should your genitals have anything to do with how you ought and ought not behave or shape yourself?
Comment by JoshZ
A Simple Christian
I don't know exactly what it is that I have written that you classify as "new age". I have made no reference to crystals or nature worship, and have no understanding of them.
As for being born again, I have been born again only once. It stuck and hasn't ever left me. Despite the amount of times I almost gave up, I never completely dropped it or let it go.
If you always believe yourself correct, you have nothing left to learn, if you have nothing left to learn you are dead.
JZ
Comment by JoshZ
A Simple Christian
good question about the dimple or dangle.
Can I get back to you on this one? I don't want to give you half an answer because you deserve a full answer, or at least, the best answer that I can give.
JZ
Comment by Abe
God's Stormtrooper
We'll just have to agree to disagree. To an old school Christian like myself, your ruminations on poems and sensitivity seem a bit unorthodox. But that's just me. I think perhaps you misinterpreted part of my statement slightly, though, so I just want to clarify: I never gave up my Christian convictions. I simply enjoy being born again through Christ so much that I have done it multiple times. Life-affirming acceptance of Christ's Divine and Holy Love and Grace through the shedding of His Blood for our sins is just like Lay's potato chips: you can't have just one!
Comment by JoshZ
A Simple Christian
I'm curious. Were/are your parents pastors or something?
JZ
Comment by David
Enjoying the comments section of this one as much as the Post itself ... (it's often the case with a Post ...
I do find all of this male/female 'stuff' interesting ...
To me, the same things make a man as make a woman (if you disregard the physical differences) ...
One of the words not used much nowadays, even in 'Christian Circles' is Virtue ... A couple of other words or terms not used as much as they should be in Christian circles are: 'Works of Mercy, and Good Works
And all Virtues, Merciful Works and Good Works can be practiced by both men and women alike ... And these (along with learning, etc) make Men out of Boys and Women out of Girls ...
David ...
Comment by JoshZ
A Simple Christian
I agree with you, alot of virtue between male and female are similar if not the same.
The funny thing is that we might argue about femininity and masculinity and what they are, but from what I have seen we value them when we find them.
And I agree, virtue is hardly mentioned as often as perhaps it ought be. But funnily enough, I have seen alot of it with those that I choose to associate with.
Always great to have you have your say,
JZ